Dear Ed Schultz, check this out: “Ohio’s huge buyers remorse. Dems did this to themselves”

Hi guys,

Look at this new PPP Poll from Ohio:

Ohio Senate Bill 5 may not be in effect for very long…54% of voters in the state say they’d repeal it in an election later this year while just 31% say they’d vote to let the bill stand.

The support for repealing SB 5 is reflective of a high level of support for unions and workers in Ohio, more so than we saw in Wisconsin a couple of weeks ago. 63% of voters in the state supportive collective bargaining for public employees to only 29% who oppose it. 52% of voters think public employees should have the right to strike, to 42% who think they should not. And 65% think public employees should have the same rights they do now- or more- while only 32% believe they should have fewer rights.

There are two things particularly notable in the crosstabs on all of these questions. The first is that non-union households are supportive of the public employees. 54% support their collective bargaining rights to 36% in opposition and 44% say they would vote to repeal SB 5 to 38% who would let it stand. Obviously that level of support is not nearly as high as among union households but it still shows that the workers have even most of the non-union public behind them.

The other thing that’s worth noting is the independents. A lot of attention has been given to the way what’s been going on in Ohio and Wisconsin is galvanizing the Democratic base, but it’s also turning independents who were strongly supportive of the GOP in the Midwest last year back against the party. 62% of independents support collective bargaining for public employees to 32% opposed and 53% support repeal of SB 5 to 32% who would let it stand.

All of this is having an absolutely brutal effect on John Kasich’s numbers. We find him with just a 35% approval rating and 54% of voters disapproving of him. His approval with people who voted for him is already all the way down to 71%, while he’s won over just 5% of folks who report having voted for Ted Strickland last fall. Particularly concerning for him is a 33/54 spread with independents.

Voters in the state are having significant buyers remorse about the results of last fall’s election. In a rematch 55% say they would now vote for Ted Strickland to just 40% who would vote for Kasich. Because this is a sample of all registered voters in the state and not just those who voted in last fall’s Republican heavy electorate the self identified 2010 vote of this sample is 49% for Strickland and 46% for Kasich but that still suggests a 12 point movement toward Strickland among those surveyed over the last four months.

Of course the reality is that Democratic leaning voters did this to themselves to some extent. It’s a small sample but among those who admit they didn’t vote last fall, Strickland has a 57-13 advantage over Kaisch. It was a similar story in Wisconsin the other week where Tom Barrett led Scott Walker 59-22 among those who had stayed at home in 2010. Democratic voters simply did not understand the consequences- or didn’t care- of their not voting last fall and they’re paying the price right now. But the winners of that realization in the long run may be Barack Obama, Sherrod Brown, and Herb Kohl- these states are already looking politically a whole lot more like 2008 than 2010.

Some tweets by PPP:

 
The damage Dems’ lack of enthusiasm did last year may be best thing that could have happened to Obama: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4

In OH those who didn’t vote last fall go Strickland 57-13. Similar in WI. Dems did this to themselves: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4

Kasich would lose a rematch to Ted Strickland right now 55-40, huge buyers remorse: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4

Kasich incredibly unpopular 35% approve, 54% disapprove: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4 

Key in Ohio: non-union households support collective bargaining by 18 points, SB 5 repeal by 6: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4 

63% in Ohio support collective bargaining for public employees, 52% right to strike: http://tinyurl.com/4ghapx4

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ABC/WaPo poll:

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Thank you, amsteema, for sending these lovely posters welcoming President Obama to Brazil this weekend:
 
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113 thoughts on “Dear Ed Schultz, check this out: “Ohio’s huge buyers remorse. Dems did this to themselves”

  1. Putting in a marker while I make dinner. FLOTUS is so pretty! So. America will love her…but is she going?

  2. So, in their attempt to hurt the President, liberals ended up almost ensuring his re-election. Duh…President Obama, winning!

    They shot themselves in the foot during the midterms, now they’re groveling begging to keep their jobs and their dignity. Good work, liberals. Guess you’re not happy unless things get really bad. Then you’re motivated to protect and fight for your self-interests.

    Ugh!

  3. It will be interesting to see how Republicans will run in 2012 – Romney seemed to be hinting on running on his CEO cred, but Kasich, Scott and Snyder are ruining that possibility.

    I mean neither Walker, Kasich or Snyder ran on union busting, so every Republican should be asked about how they feel about public unions i the GOP Presidential primary, and they have their first debate in a month, though it’s on Fox.

    I just hope Dems can keep this motivation up for another 20 months. Wisconsin will with their recall efforts I hope, but what does Ohio have? I believe it needs to be a ballot measure in Ohio – I think I read that somewhere.

    President Obama needs to get Strickland and Granholm into his administration in some capacity to get them out in the public. Maybe the plan is to hold them back for the time being while the Kasich, Walker, Snyder are shooting themselves in the foot and then unleash them in a years time in the height of his campaign.

  4. Here’s a newsflash for the PL: if you want America to become progressive again, then support the party that will do so. Support the President who will do so. The more our support looks coherent and committed, the more progressive our President can be. Not by calling him names. Not by putting your individual pony-list above all political realities.

    It’s simple, really: celebrate the direction of the Democratic President and Democratic Congress. Stop taking one issue to negate all the progress already made. Celebrate it every time you open your mouths. Give Democrats and independents a comfortable place to put their desires and hopes. Affirm the direction, if not the ultimate goal of a utopian progressive nation. Remind voters that each election can bring us closer to a just society, where this nation invests in its commons and a just society. That we’re closer now than we were in 2008 and can get closer with each election, IF we honestly inform the public and mobilize them to vote. That every time we weaken the Democratic party, we install more bad judges who can stand in the way of progress.

    Do what Republicans do and have done for the last 30 years. That is why Americans now believe that taxes and government are bad — because Republicans held together for 30 effing years until they had remade American discourse.

    Start remaking American discourse in a progressive direction. You don’t do that by denigrating Democratic Presidents and Democratic Congress people. You get what you say you want when you become part of the solution instead of a major part of the problem.

  5. It’s a shame. All of the pain they caused (to all of us) could have been avoided. When will they stop listening to the phony dems like Schultz and DK? When will they stop blaming the President and realize he is the only one preventing this country’s complete demise, which is what the republicans want?

    I pray they’ve truly learned their lesson.

  6. Fox was beating the drum to punish public workers since last Sept or before. As the run up to the 2010 Election it was very clear the Republican meme was to dismantle unions and punish Obama’s and his donors who were in large part from unions. I believe the layoffs by public employers was not due to the economy as much as it was so many donated to Obama’s campaign. These employers fired employees, in my opinon, because of the overwhelming votes going to Obama.

  7. Hi Hachiko! I think that what’s going on is that when people are able to receive clean information without the spin which goes into play during elections, the political decisions are very different. The media is *THE* challenge of the coming set of elections. Having sources of clean, unfiltered information will be utterly key IMO. This space is doing a lot to get this emerging effort started.

  8. That certainly is my plan: helping to create more progress by celebrating what has been done, and advocating for more Dems in key positions to create more progress.

    I can’t imagine that tearing Dems down will create anything but the chaos we’re currently seeing.

    Everyone has the right to their own opinions and political behavior. Thank God that we now have several spaces in which to discuss these ideas in peace, and allow others who disagree to behave in the manner of their choosing.

  9. In Chicago we have a progressive radio station, one of the last independently run radio stations in the country (I will never forgive Bill Clinton for the Telecom bill – NEVER).

    There are only a few truly supportive radio shows in this market: Stephanie Miller (even though she has her curmudgeonly sidekicks), Hal Sparks on Saturday (so far it’s only a local show). Gee, that’s it. The rest are your typical PL flame throwers. Bill Press can be okay, but he’s still hung up on his Hillary fixation. Ed Schultz, Thom Hartman (not always but often enough to distress me), Norman Goldman (the worst!). There isn’t a fill-in host that doesn’t take full advantage of bashing Obama at every turn.

    The majority of radio time is spent making progressives doubt Democrats. It’s appalling.

  10. I hope Sen. Kohl retires. He’ll be 77 years old, and it’s best to get a new Dem senator in in the Presidential year. OTOH rumors have Russ Feingold potentially a name to replace him. Russ blew his chance, I’d like a new face.

    However if Walker is recalled Russ has shown interest in running for Governor, but Barrett has also said he’s like a rematch.

  11. Buyers’ remorse — I’ve been wondering if this is good. It means a lot of turmoil during the next two years as voters, furious at the politicians who were elected, start recall motions to get them out.

    It’s good for people like me who saw immediately that so much hot air was going to be blown by a crowd of wingnuts whose legislation would go nowhere. Why didn’t I speak out, warned my family to speak out, and right away? I voted, my family across the US voted, but obviously many of our Democratic brothers and sisters didn’t bother.

    I wonder what they expected to happen? I don’t think they could have envisioned this. Telling indeed were the polls showing Strickland supporters not bothering to vote. Obviously Strickland would be sitting in the governor’s chair had they gone to the polls.

    Certainly, it stirred up the labor movement, and that’s got to be good.

    I think we’ll all be trying to work this out as the next two years grind on.

  12. Thanks for this wonderful thread, BWD!

    From the poster:
    “fala ao povo brasileiro” = speech to the Brazilian people

    Doesn’t that have a nice ring to it?

  13. I love Stephanie but I’ve gotten to the point I can only listen to her on Wednesday’s when Hal is on….the mooks are just so damn negative about everything not to mention her call in know it all guess (charlie pierce) or something like that…….nothing ever seems to be good enough for them. I love Randi Rhodes and that’s about it for me. I use to listen to Bill but the whining and being so simplistic about every major issue was just to much for me.

  14. Schultz and others on the PL is the reason I stopped watching cable “news” shows and visiting certain blogs. I couldn’t stand their constant bashing of PBO and the democrats in Congress. They’re as bad as those on the right when it comes to getting voters to act against their own best interests. Why anyone listens to them, I’ll never understand. Ed and the rest of those who did the damage to democrats will probably never have to worry like the people they told to stay home from the polls in November 2010. They have no idea the amount of damage they’ve done to the lives of these citizens and their families, and the shameful thing is that they did it for ratings.

  15. Well said Faith! I hope those in the PL who are honest will see the wisdom of your advice.

  16. Agree. Ed and the others did it for ratings, or hits on a blog, or money in their fat pockets, and they don’t care, and they will feel no regret.

    I pity them.

  17. I forgot to thank blackwaterdog specifically for giving us this information.

    And Saint Roscoe, I was saddened to hear that Russ Feingold was voted out of office, and in fact we sent a contribution to his re-election. But you sound much more informed than I am in that state. You said “Feingold blew his chance” — how did he blow his chance? Just wondered. He could have laid off criticizing our president, but otherwise I liked him. Thanks.

    Also, Roscoe, you said that Walker, Kasich and Snyder “ran on union busting.” I thought they kept this idea under wraps until they got elected. I’m just wondering if I should be furious at the three for lying by omission or at the voters for being deaf and dumb.

    Best to you; I enjoy your posts.

  18. Same here. And I’ve convinced many of my MSNBC watching friends to find positive blogs like this one to get their political news and updates. Even the local news is about to get the click from me. This morning on our local News Channel 8, the anchor led into a politics update by saying to the reporter, “everybody wants to know why President Obama isn’t doing more about the budget problem.” The reporter corrected her out by stating that the budget is a legislative process, but she had already tossed the bomb. What ever happened to reporting the news instead of making (up) the news?

  19. Hi everyone. marabout good to see you. looking forward to the Brazil trip hope we can get some good coverage.

  20. WHILE THE PRESIDENT CAMPAIGNED HARD FOR DEMS IN THE 2010 ELECTION,HE SAID TO NOT GIVE THE REPUBS THE KEYS BACK…RALLY AFTER RALLY THAT IS WHAT HE SAID,LOUD AND CLEAR!!!! HE DIDNT STUTTER…BUT THEN, IN STEPS ED SCHULTZ AND THE PL TELLING VOTERS TO JUST FOREGO VOTING…HOW STUPID!!! NOW WHAT DO WE HAVE??? THE PL AND ED SCHULTZ PULLING THEIR HAIR OUT AND SCREAMING FOR THE PRESIDENT TO PARACHUTE INTO WISCONSIN AND OHIO TO DO WHAT??? HE TOLD THEM WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IF THEY GOT CONTROL…ED PLEASE…JUST STFU NOW!!!

  21. I need to find Randi online (although my creaky computer doesn’t like to stream — maybe a podcast).

    I always liked Randi and from what I hear she’s got it right these days. She got fired from Chicago and a lot of other places by calling Hillary the “b” word at a private function (the Powers that Be, in those early days of the heated primary wars were protective of Hillary).

  22. PBO stays winning, as I knew he would.

    Too many people are apathetic — those stay-home numbers are just ridiculous. Sometimes, though, we need to let things hit rock bottom before we really get the resolve to change things. Seems like that’s where Midwestern Democrats (and Indies) are now. The choice is clear, and the message is getting through no matter what the MSM does.

    Brazil! How exciting.

    FLOTUS looks wonderful, as usual. Skin like buttah.

  23. Good Day everyone! When I saw this information last night, I thought the same thing. All the PL that complains and Ed who said not to vote. Well, look what happens. I hear they also are feeling the same way in Florida. Wonder what the numbers are there. Heard Scott was even pissing off the Repubs.

    I think the POTUS and FLOTUS will have a great trip to South America. I can’t wait to see the crowds.

    Have a great day everyone.

  24. YOU SAID IT…ED HAS NO SHAME AT ALL…CONSTANTLY CALLING ON THE PRESIDENT FOR EVERY SINGLE ISSUE..AS IF HES(#44) IS AT HIS BECK AND CALL…I CANT STAND ED NOR DO I LISTEN TO HIS SHOW…NOTHING BUT HOT AIR!!!

  25. My 2 cents worth.

    Short term, the unwillingness to get out and vote or even defend the scces of the last two years hurt big time in 2010. And, one thing you can say for the Republican party, they are always able to get their base motivated. They may do it by lying, cheting, whatever, but thwey do it. The Dems, not so much. In fact, sometimes the base tends to demotivate itself.

    However, and this also includes the independents out there, 2010 may result, long term, in a lessening of voter apathy. And for this, we can thank the Republicans. If they had played their cards close to the vest for 2 years, not overreached, the elections in 2012 would be up for grabs. Now, even with the Citizens United money available, it will be, I think, but am not taking for granted, a major winning year for Dems.

    To think that in just 3 short months, people like Walker, Kasich, Snyder and Scott have gone from being elected fairly easily to way down in the polls, is amazing. I am not sure they could have done as much harm to themselves if they had tried.

    Americans may, as a whole, have short memories, but 2010 may well turn into a watershed moment for this country.

  26. Feingold took his re-election for granted early on and was caught flat-footed. When he realized he was in trouble it was too late, and even then he seemed to accept his fate rather than fight for it. Now he says he knows Wisconsin politics and attack ads and such don’t work, but he needed a hail mary pass attempt and never took the shot. I think Russ figured the press would do the mudslinging on Johnson for him and the truth would eventually get out or something.

    I said “neither” ran, though I should have said “none of” as I listed more than two. Snyder ran a nice guy moderate executive campaign, Kasich and Walker folks at least should have known what they were getting to some extent. Walker has a privatization record, and Kasich is a bankster with Roger Ailes personal backing.

  27. The one concern I have is that Kasich, Scott, Snyder and Walker will claim the improving economy in their states is a result of these moves. I mean Strickland, Granholm/MI Dems, Wisc Dems were blamed for the Bush Recession and the fact President Obama didn’t bring the economy back fast enough. So what happens when the economy is stronger in the future – they’ll claim their anti-union bills were the reason.

  28. I can’t wait to see footage of Pres. Obama in Brazil. I spent time there in my youth, and they love Americans, and I am doubly sure they will love this American (is Michelle going with him?) It is a very ethnically diverse country, lots of folks have African roots. They love style and who has more style than our First Couple? (I’m sure they also appreciate brains but have to say that style may trump brains for many Brazilians, same as for many of us in the US).

  29. I remember going to that huge rally at Ohio State University, just before the election. Both the President the First Lade were there, and both literally begged the crowd to “not give them the keys back”. PBO was a great fan of Stricklad’s and he told the crowd again and again what Kasich is going to do.

    Yea, people get what they deserve, i guess.

  30. That may have worked if a) they hadn’t turned down the high-speed rail funds and b) if they hadn’t been so aggressive in their current moves having not mentioned them in their campaigns. I know the public has a tendency to be skeptical of anything politicians say, with reason, but these guys have raised that skepticism to a whole new level.

  31. Where is Russ now-a-days anyway?

    Haven’t heard much from him during this whole drama in Wisconsin, it seems.

  32. Loud mouth Ed schultz still does not understand politics. He is too busy listening ti his own voice to annalys the facts on the ground. President Oboma said it last year , but the so called spokesmen and women on the left confused a lot of poor people that thier was no difference between the two parties and they stayed home. Look who is suffering now little people, the loud mouths are still collecting thier big pay checks. I say “SHAME, SHAME, SHAME”to all of them for the dammage they did last year.Ed schultz is back at it again complaining about oboma not going to wisconsin forgeting that the worst thing the president can do now is to make this a partisan issue. He wants the republican party to make it bout oboma instead of takinga away peoples rights.

  33. I love Stephanie but not her whiny sidekicks. There is one that is always in the background, agreeing to every half truth or conspiracy theory. And they always call Stephanie an Obamapologist but get their ass on their backs is she suggests they are Obama bashers.

    Bill is ok sometimes but I find myself tuning him out or not even listening to him. He’s whiny too. He spent a good chunk of his show trying to get people to agree that the Obama admin is wrong in their nuclear stance. He also buys into the story of Manning being tortured.

    Thom is smart but – like Rachel – is too smart for his own good. He is knee jerk as well and always jumps in with both feet on the latest “professional left” rumor about Obama. I listen to him every so ofter. His saving grace is at least he realized the importance of having a Democratic president (SUPREME COURT PICK – hello?). He also – surprisingly- did not think the president should go to WI to protest like the firebaggers pretended to want.

    I only get the hear Hal on Stephanies show on Wednesday. The4 guy knows his stuff and I love that he’s there to defend the president along with Stephanie.

    I love Randi. She gets it.

  34. I’m with you – although, I do listen to Stephanie on my way into work. But her sidekicks are complete downers – especially Jim, who’s never satisfied. She’s gotten stronger, though, I think because Hal supports her on Wednesdays. And she calls them out on their negativity.

  35. Plus, if Russ Feingold had his way, we’d be among those sanctimonious few that the President talked about in December, who held out for perfect, and denied people health care, financial regulatory reform, careful extraction from Iraq, etc. Russ Feingold is a purist – and that’s great for pulling people closer to the left, but there’s a point when one has to realize this is as far as you can go, and then you join the majority. He made things much harder, and forced us to negotiate with Republicans who watered down bills, because we couldn’t rely on our own purist Democrats. Personally, I think Russ Feingold should stay out of politics if he can’t compromise – because he’ll never get anything done.

    Plus, he ran far away from the President, while bad-mouthing him, during the campaign. Then didn’t have any shame when the President came to campaign for him, even when his voice was dying. That was it for me.

    This is just my opinion – I’m sure you have had a different experience.

  36. You nailed it Cilliza. Ed Schultz is indeed a loud mouth. I just cannot take his show. He obviously didn’t learn much from the midterm defeat advocating for people to not show up to vote. He is part of the problem not part of the solution.

  37. BWD – just sent ED my RT of your 3/13 post re the WI-14, saying PBO was very supportive & they were glad he didn’t go to WI. I don’t doubt Ed has a good heart and I treasure a photo I had taken with him at Net Roots last year, but he’s way off base and damaging at times with his unfounded criticism/rants of our President simply because he doesn’t say or do exactly what he wants him to, and exactly when and how. He isn’t the only one, obviously, but if he shows the old clip of the President saying “he’d walk” one more time, I may return my autographed copy of Killer Politics.

  38. I just wonder where the PL’s progressive hero Russ has been during this time. I don’t see any calls for him to walk the picket line with his fellow Wisconsin citizens. He’s been M.I.A., and nary a peep from the firebaggers. Interesting.

  39. How about instead of watching ed shultz and every loony cable crap out there, just get their transcript so that you don’t have to give them ratings.

  40. Sister G is just a lurker these days, Amiga. I can’ t focus on politics,
    not that I was ever that great at it, LOL. An occasional post, but then when I get email notification that I sent one, i’ m surprised, it had gone right out of my head🙂.

    The WI business is awful, Japan is tragic, being oblivious has it’s rewards.

    Doc’s say the recovery is three weeks ahead of schedule. I’m starting the next phase (rebuilding), but mainly i’ m contemplating.

    Thx for asking – xxoo – will email soon.

    What a success this blog is. I think they resent it’s popularity on dkos, heh.

  41. Loudmouth Loony Ed Shultz is one of the heroes of the UNprofessional left because he projects with emotion.

    I’ll be honest, he’s effective at rallying the middle class, but he’s being counterproductive by pointing his targets at POTUS.

    I’d love to have single payer, see Bush/Cheney prosecuted, corporate America demolished, yadda yadda yadda. But I accept reality, and POTUS is just one man, not a dictator.

    Ed is another liberal who happens to be a “former Republican,” although “former” is seriously in doubt. Ed and other UNprofessional left pundits and commentators use the same tactics that the right wing does: name calling and basing everything in emotion.

    I’m not a fan of the Democrats or Republicans, but I support the Democrats because they want to push forward progress, whereas Republicans want to take the country back to colonial times. And the “Blue Dog DLC” Democrats that the UNprofessional left complained about last November got replaced by Tea Party Republicans, nice going!

    I don’t like a lot of what POTUS has had to do, but I don’t throw a fit over it and complain he should be more to the left. I move on to the next fight.

    Ed and the rest of the UNprofessional left are being part of the problem, and not the solution. The solution isn’t to primary every moderate Democrat with a Bernie Sanders liberal, the solution is to be pragmatic and practical, just as we saw in the lame duck session last December.

    Right now, I’d say POTUS doesn’t need to do a thing and just let the right wing Tea Party Republicans destroy themselves. Let the public workers in Wisconsin, Ohio, and other states with anti union Republicans fight their own battles.

    POTUS continues to be the only adult in the room, while Ed and the UNprofessional left continue to be the whining kids in the sandbox.

  42. He did help Arianna Bluffington get her blog started… birds of a feather…

  43. Agree – The only one I watch for the full hour is Rachel. A few I sometimes leave on while in another room working, and more for whom I make sure the tv is off. Best transcripts are of the President’s speeches. Within reason, other viewpoints can widen my perspective, which is not a bad thing – it’s the rants that turn me off.

  44. I’m actually glad that he stayed out of it too. The people spoke, and it continues to be beautiful to witness.

  45. Excellent idea, professor!

    Ed ought to join the circus — he’s a first class rabble-rouser. I called my husband in here to see a video of his working the crowd somewhere for some cause or other. I wanted him to see a first class barn burning fomentation in the flesh.

    At that time, Ed sounded like a graduate of the French Revolution. (My husband could never like the man as a pundit.)

  46. Thanks, Roscoe. We were among those who sent money to Feingold when it was evident he was going to lose without some sort of miracle. Now I know why.

    The type of politician I imagined keeping his true agenda behind his back was how you describe Snyder. I didn’t hear about Walker’s disaster in Milwaukee until after he showed his hand with the union-busting thing.

  47. So much so I wonder if KochBros. got to Eddie Boy? Money has corrupted better people.

  48. I think it’s also important to remember that a lot of people can’t handle lots of change at once. Many people don’t like any change at all. So, while some people may have wanted the President to completely transform the country, and right every wrong, it may have backfired and sent people scurrying to a more conservative option, instead of embracing the new opportunities. Incremental change takes longer, but it also sticks longer.

    Just look at how effective the right wing were at painting the very moderate health care reform legislation as some radical, socialist takeover of the health insurance system – when it’s nothing of the sort. It’s very common sensical, but far reaching. The Wall Street reform didn’t completely transform the way banks do business, but it laid the groundwork for better management and oversight – so the Democrats can continue to campaign on both of these items and introduce change in a more gradual, acceptable way.

    As the President said in December during his rant – “not everybody agrees with us, and not everybody reads the NY Times”. He’s President of all the people, and he has to introduce change in a way that can stick.

  49. I have a colleague who worked for Feingold during his first election to the Senate then as a staffed later. She was very disillusioned about his attitudes on women’s policies and how women were treated on the staff.

  50. “They shot themselves in the foot during the midterms, now they’re groveling begging to keep their jobs and their dignity. Good work, liberals. Guess you’re not happy unless things get really bad. Then you’re motivated to protect and fight for your self-interests.”

    Well, it’s the truth. I couldn’t believe the moans about “sitting it out” last year; it’s exactly what happened in 2000 (along with the “Not a dime’s worth of difference” BS.

    And now…we see the result. You know what? This could have all be avoided if Ed and company just realized that elections have consequences and it was stupid to throw temper tantrums.

    But somehow, I fear, they’re going to forget this lesson and still do something stupid, like trying to primary Obama.

  51. PL-leftie here.

    Look: hammering us is not useful or productive. Most of us are allies of President Obama; I worked for his election and will work even harder for his re-election; I’ve attended my OFA training (and plugged that training here on this site and am working to get more training where I live), and I will devote most of my non-farming hours to the campaign for Democrats right up through election day 2012, and start again right after that. I’ve had “Obama 2012” on my truck for months.

    Yes, I know that some of my PL colleagues are throwing tantrums because they did not get a pony on January 21, 2009. And they need to grow up. Others, I think, are rightly disappointed on some issues; I am, too.

    And Ed’s advice was disastrous. Period.

    All that said, we need to work together, for this nation, for progress, and for President Obama and all good Democrats. Crying “shame” at allies is not what is most needed now. “Professional lefties” need to remember that. So do we all.

    With gratitude for all the good this site does,
    Joe

  52. This is so true. Already we are seeing a bias just in the number of GOP guests, say, on Meet the Press, compared with Dem. guests; sometimes there aren’t any and sometimes they get the conservadems on, so there is no clear “other” side. It worries me.

  53. Ms Third World, who led the outrage with the continuum of anti-Obama and sell-out talk, became the biggest seller-outer of all time. What a crock!. And if the ‘liberal’ sheeple are still looking to be led, she will continue to take them down the path of rightwingness with ‘new and diverse bloggers'( this is me quoting, it always sounds so intellectual,doesn’t it), all radically in tow with her repug memes and talking points! Um, a liberal she ain’t!
    My take is if it sounds like a repug, talks like a repug, hangs out with repugs,by golly it is a repub,no matter how much it brays liberal!
    P.S Since the Aol deal has she even mentioned Wall St or the word corporate? People we have been had! But, you can only be had for so long!

  54. Ed Shultz last night again bleated that President Obama should be in Wisconsin or he will lose his base. WTF??? I think his base is reenergized because it isn’t only about the President being re-elected, but having governors, members of the House and Senate that will pass laws in support of the American people. We need to keep the Senate, and take the House back, and we need dem. House members and Senate members that have guts.

  55. Then the bashing from the left must stop. Doing the same as the republican is not helping his cause of moving this country forward. If they can’t realize, that the sole progress come from who we elect in the senate and the house. For the first 2 yrs they did not back this president efforts, so they put him the box of having to compromise. they did’nt back him on gitmo, healthcare, but everything was his fault because he had to compromise, due to the blue dogs. If the left can’t see that, then they should be blames for the mess we are in now.

  56. Joe,
    I seriously don’t believe you fall under the category of PL Lefties. It’s one thing to work for a campaign, or the Dem party, or a group working to protect the environment. It’s an entirely different category to go on television, make money on blogs, create controversy to sell books and get better gigs all in the name of bashing our President and trying to disrupt and demoralize Dems and depress the vote. Especially if you’re doing so on behalf of the Republicans like MarKos and Ed Schultz or Arianna flippin’ Huffington. They are the PL who are being trashed here. Not the hard-working political operatives and policy wonks who are genuinely trying to make a difference. Those of us who aren’t in it for the money or fame or to enable the Republicans can hold our head up high, even if we make a living doing what we do.

  57. And then they’ll have someone like Huffington on to represent “the left” and what results is pure Dem-bashing for an entire program. This is a huge challenge; I think we’re up to it, in terms of creating true grassroots alternatives to some of the nonsense floating around.

  58. At this point he’s just embarrassing himself and becoming more and more irrelevant. Not even worth the eyeballs.

  59. Extremely well said. And while I take the advice of not wanting to repeat them verbatim in terms of quoting poison words, I also don’t think it does any good to let events like the Sherrod-libeling Breitbart being hired by an anti-POTUS partisan “on the left” to pass unremarked upon. I think that we tend to strike a good balance; when we’re out of whack, there will be a ton of comments asking people to refocus onto something positive. But I personally don’t entertain the notion that I “need” to stand in coalition with people who I frankly don’t trust and don’t think are looking towards my best interests or that of average Americans. That was over with the 2010 elections.

    Thanks for making it clear that the topic under discussion is a very specific type of content producer, of course not every single person who is employed in a lefty cause or politics.

  60. It’s really not the left. It’s literally a handful of sensationalists who spread narratives and memes, and who control a bunch of the *media* content which purports to represent the left. We really don’t have much of a genuine voice as it stands, which is why it’s so important that folks continue to build up and promote alternatives such as this fine site and give up on thinking that we can or even should try to fix or balance out spaces which are excessive and counterproductive.

  61. To be honest the Democrats just got complacent. People forget it took SO much energy to get Obama elected, I think many were tired from doing everything possible to get Bush and the GOP out (just like people were tired after the long Dem primary, only to be reinvigorated by Palin selection). So I don’t think Ed n’company had too much effect.

    But to put in a historical perspective, there were many just like Ed in the 1930s during Roosevelt’s presidency(i.e. Father Coughlin) who accused him of being a “corporate sellout cozying up too much to Wall Street & allowing communism.”

    No matter, Roosevelt looked his enemies in the eye and pressed on doing what he knew was right for the times. He was re-elected 4 times and produced the largest middle class ever that stood for 40 years until Reagan began to unwind it all.

    The history of great presidents shows that there are many, even those supposed to be on their side, who are chicken littles that cluck-cluck til the cows come home. In the end, the great presidents overcome and the Father Coughlins are mere footnotes.

  62. Hi Eric

    I’m doing well physically. Psychologically, I am determined to sort this out. Hypochondriasis reigns currently. Thanks.

  63. Joe, judging from your comment you are NOT a member of the PL and you should not self-identify with that crowd. Ed is a member of the PL. i.e., he is a pundit that is PAID to provide his POV to the public (hence the use of the word “professional”). Sounds like you may be a progressive activist or supporter of the democratic party, which is fine. In other words, you are not a part of the problem, unlike Ed, Kos and Huffington.

  64. I heard that. When she started bashing the president more often than giving him credit, I began to tune her out.

    But to be honest the Democrats just got complacent. People forget it took SO much energy to get Obama elected, I think many were tired from doing everything possible to get Bush and the GOP out (just like people were tired after the long Dem primary, only to be reinvigorated by Palin selection). So I don’t think Ed n’company had too much effect.

    But to put in a historical perspective, there were many just like Ed in the 1930s during Roosevelt’s presidency (i.e. Father Coughlin) who accused him of being a “corporate sellout cozying up too much to Wall Street & allowing communism.”

    No matter, Roosevelt looked his enemies in the eye and pressed on doing what he knew was right for the times. He was re-elected 4 times and produced the largest middle class ever that stood for 40 years until Reagan began to unwind it all.

    The history of great presidents shows that there are many, even those supposed to be on their side, who are chicken littles that cluck-cluck til the cows come home. In the end, the great presidents overcome and the Father Coughlins are mere footnotes.

  65. I definately agree with Tien Le that Joe does not typify what we consider the PL. And sure it’s kind of a new fluid term that some may perceive differently, but I’d like to use the core of his comment as a jumping off point.

    I don’t think you can shame voters into voting with you. And that does mean voting in their own self-interest but shame and fear are close cousins and I distinctly call them being related to the GOP.

    I get that people are upset at how some votes went last Nov and the resultant issues we’re dealing with now. I get that a lot of us have lost patience with those we view as the PL from the most benign to malignant on the self-defeating spectrum.

    My worry is that it’s easy for even us, yes us, who rightly call out folks for not fighting the right enemy to be seductively lulled into that same pointless fight. I know many here have expressed their belief that spotlighting them gives them life and that we need to harness our energy for greater use. I agree with that, but I’m not one for ignoring agregious patterns that are attempting to suck the life out of our movement into other, more productive directions either. There is a balance between wilfully ignoring to your detriment, a blind spot per haps and givng something too much power. It’s a line we’ll all, always struggle with. And that’s okay, it’s part of bending that arc towards justice.

    I just have a harder time with lack of empathy surrounding voters that we will need. We have to support a conversion thru continuing to provide spaces like this, chalk full of information and informed content. We have to support their willingness to wake up by being, more Obama-like IMO. Our tent is big for a reason and the door never closes permanently.

    I know people voted the wrong way and shot themselves in the foot, but pointing it out and laughing, yelling, stepping on it or refusing to help will never move this nation or this administration forward. This would not make for good canvassing strategy for the WI recalls and 2012 Presidential election and I think it alienates folks who would otherwise be willing to listen.

    This attitude also plays on long-held political stereotypes of the liberal thinking they are better than. We can’t go around only behaving to discredit those stereotypes of course, but it is important to remember I think.

    I guess my point is, Joe and many others who have disappointments and worse still, others who have not voted or voted directly against themselves deserve progessive action on their behalf cause that’s what we do, regardless. Even if it means 2 steps forward, 1 step back at times…and indeed it really always has, we still fight for the ideals that will best govern all Americans…until they get on board too.

  66. I agree, GN. It is a small group of MSN-appointed spokespeople for the “Left” that are causing the problem. Interestingly, many of these people used to be republicans. I know that if a former democrat is hired by FOX or CNN, that former democrat will bash democrats. I just wonder why these former republicans never bash the GOP in a politically meaningful way, but instead relentlessly bash dems and Pres. Obama, give horrible political advice to Obama and voters (i.e., don’t vote) and generally help get republican elected.

  67. Agree totally and as an addendum to my embarrisingly long comment below, my distinction between positive reinforcement versus shaming strategies are for the general pop, the voters, the constituents etc, not Jane, Ed and Ari et all. They have their coalitions and are doing just fine, but even excessive deamonizing of them and less shady lefty pundits tends to drain some of our potentcy at times. And we can get into a knee-jerk revolving door mode of who is in and who is out.

  68. And I think that helps illustrate the point that we will never stop every Huffington huckster or babbling Bayh, but we need to realign our media top to bottom.

  69. Surprised he wasn’t shown the door when they gave Olbermann the boot. I guess his contract probably has a few months left.

  70. “Others, I think, are rightly disappointed on some issues; I am, too.”

    *facepalming* See this is the sort of chatter that gets me fired up. With all due respect, certainly I take your word that you support this president but the repetition of this sort of loose talk from people who claim they support potus, this sort of PL meme, this embrace of sanctimony, this purist thought pattern, certainly does not help the cause and basically makes you sound exactly like the argument you are refuting.

    I cannot fathom what this potus has NOT done in the half term of his presidency that causes the far left to so freely embrace this mantra.

    Personally I will continue gleefully to declare over and over and over again, this president has accomplished more for progressives in these 2 years under the most difficult of circumstances, dealing with the most hardened and combative adversaries on both sides, and without the progressives standing with him, than any other in my lifetime.

  71. Thanks Theo for your excellent analysis. It is so gratifying to come to this place where people like you discuss political reality instead of ranting and raving about the President’s betrayal. Any one with a minimal understanding of American history should know that change in America is always gradual.

  72. I thought your long comment below was great, Jordan. Lots of food for thought and contemplation. I love this place.

  73. Yup; we got lazy and happy, and couldn’t replace the numbers of swing voters who sided with the GOP. I *do* blame the PL in part for having a hand in that poisonous media environment which affected those swing voters: “Dems are sellout pigs who spent a lot of money but didn’t accomplish a thing…er, um, vote for us though” is horrible messaging. We’ll do better in 2012 after casting aside the notion that these folks speak for the base. We’re well on our way to improving matters, inch by inch.

  74. Just have to say, I bet that Feingold, along with President Obama, is no stranger to rallies, taking to the streets, getting fired up and joining his voice to that of the grassroots. I think that his choice to not make this WI protest all about *him* was just as strategic as that of POTUS. If unions said they needed him, he would have crawled to Madison on broken glass to be there. I have my differences with Feingold, but I believe this to the fullest. He stayed out for the good of the protesters, and to avoid a circus. I have absolutely no doubt but that he is on the side of the people. He has made me angry at times, but I truly believe that he stayed out of this for the right reasons, so that the GOP couldn’t claim, “ooh, sour grapes, opportunist” or create a diversion.

  75. Ahh, the great “enthusiasm gap” of 2010.

    Hey, Democratic voters of Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania: Still happy you stayed home last November?

    I didn’t think so.

  76. You make a great point. Some of the Pro-Left who seem to be the most untethered from rational, realistic, and prudent political action used to be Republicans. Whether it’s Huffington, Markos, Ed Schultz, Cenk, it goes on and on and on…

    It certainly makes you wonder. I do know that too many on the left have an unrealistic understanding of the power of the Presidency.

    That, and the foolish belief held by some on the left that the President has at his disposal the type of “Bully-Pulpit” enjoyed by Teddy Roosevelt, seemingly ignorant of the fact that Teddy Roosevelt was President at a time before radio, TV, movies, newsreels, and even telephone. (nevemind no internet) He governed at a time when he was the only man whose words would find their way into your local newspaper.

    In other words, in a time when a video of a cat playing piano can potentially be seen by more people than the footage of the President making a speech on gun control, there is no “bully-pulpit” to speak of. At least not the all powerful, magical, Republican vote changing pulpit Kossacks seem to envision.

    I think some folks have just seem one too many episodes of “The West Wing”, confusing it with reality the way conservatives do with “Red Dawn” or “24”.

  77. Very true, tigeraakbj. That’s what amazes me so much about Obama. His ability to ignore those who hate him, stay on his game and keep his eye on the goal. I believe these qualities had to evolve over the course of his life, as a black guy with a funny name who had to deal with the kind of vitriol we see today all through his life. All the while striving for his goals.

  78. I totally agree with you GN. This was a grassroots movement. I am glad that Sen Feingold, like the President, decided not intrude and make it all about him. As much as I appreciated Ed Shultz covering the protest, I was very disturbed when he tried to use his coverage to attack the President. I also sensed that Ed Shultz’s attack on the President had a great deal with his desire to raise his ratings. Surely, Shultz is not that naive to think that the President of United States would drop everything to go lead a labor protest. In over 200 years of American presidency, no president had ever participated in protests. To do so would diminish his stature as the President of all the people, even those he disagreed with.

  79. Are you suggesting that Father Coughlin viewed himself as a liberal/progressive Democrat who was part of FDR’s base? Otherwise, I just don’t see how his attack on FDR is comparable to the attacks President Obama is getting from his so called base. To me, Father Coughlin was more like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michele Bachman and all the other teabaggers. But unlike them, Father Coughlin didn’t have the same media domination, Radio and cable t.v., attacking FDR 24/7. He was a vocal but very marginalized voice. The MSM never took him seriously. The Poor father, he had no FOX news to beam his diatribes across the country.

    What really irritates me about the purist progressives is their mythologizing of FDR. Surely FDR did a lot of things right but most of those things he did were a result of practical compromises within his own party. For Example: the SS act of 1935 excluded agricultural and Domestic workers, and so did the requirement for minimum wage and forty-hour work week. These exclusions were necessary to ensure the support of Southern Democrats.

    Moreover, while the long term structural changes of FDR’s New Deal Programs are quite impressive, his short term programs still did not solve the massive unemployment that continued until World War II. But you see, during FDR’s time, unlike today, people were not into instant gratification. They new that the massive damage caused by Republicans would take long time to repair. They appreciated the slow but steady progress from FDR’s programs. Yet, when FDR was re-elected in 1936, unemployment was still in the double digits. But now I hear that President Obama may not be re-elected if unemployment is not below 7%.

    While it is true that FDR had his critics, the fact of the matter is that he never faced 24/7 criticism from the left, the right and the MSM for not immediately solving all the problems he inherited from Hoover in just two years.

  80. My Wisconsin cousin just passed this link on to me. Here you will see CNN “news reporting” being faked in many videos. Wolf Blitzer, head of CNN News, is a real tool. After you watch some of the videos, imagine how many more reports are totally faked as well. Then imagine how much of the news itself is faked.

    Back to Al Jazeera English.

  81. Kelly,
    I did not enumerate my disappointments (and will not here), for two reasons:
    1) my list would shed only heat, not light
    2) my disappointments are mine: each of us had different hopes and expectations regarding the myriad challenges this nation faces, and (in some cases) supporters of candidate Obama might well have hoped for different (even opposing, mutually exclusive) outcomes; this is not anyone’s fault, just the nature of the world.

    Record millions of people (each with different hopes and dreams) voted for then-Senator Obama: surely some will have been disappointed in some regard, and the ones with the highest or most unrealistic expectations will have been the most disappointed.

    Let me also emphasize that if I say that I am disappointed that President Obama did not achieve X by date Y, I am not saying that President Obama is a disappointment; my statement is about me, and about my expectations.

    Joe

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